so tell us what makes a slave?
so what makes a slave? is it blind obedience,can it be that simple,or is there more to it? maybe it's the ability to fur like a sleen.do tell. and for you slaves what makes a good master? is he loving and kind or is it his stinging hand,maybe it's his ability to fur like a sleen?
Sha Tell,
board Administrator
Edited by XSha Tell at: 7/10/99 11:04:02 am Edited by XSha Tell at: 7/11/99 8:38:17 am Edited by XSha Tell at: 7/23/99 3:59:13 am
good slaves...? as they tell me, sex is only a minor part of being one...how often does someone say?.."my slave deleted their sn today" soooo maybe it's loyality, commitment and the desire to please......coupled with intelligence, a sense of humor and the ability to adapt and learn quickly.....A stupid, uncouth person never survives anywhere, very long...especially in Gor..
The making of a Master and a slave
Its not so simple, for anyone to explain what makes them a Master or a slave, perhaps its bound into the genetics of each person.
We all have God given traits, that make us who we are to date, and though some may be shaped by the society we live in or the teachings of our parents/mentors, in the end we will be just who we are and were meant to be.
A Master, in the humble opinion of carne, is one who can control Himself first, and then others. He is not cruel, harsh or quick tempered, all of these would make Him merely an abuser. He has it in Him to read a slave, to understand her plight, and to nuture her from inside out.
He does not coddle her by any means, but respects her individuality, and hears what she says, deciding what is simply a selfish want, and what is a need of hers.
As for a slave, well its far beyond simple submission or a bedroom game. Because slavery is a lasting commitment, You are turning Yourself and all that you own over to a Master. It is complete trust, faith and admiration.
You serve in manners that are mental as well as physical. You serve as a wife, partner, mother and employee. Your sucsess is His pleasure, Your intelligence is a thing of joy for Him.
A slave has strength and beauty beyond words, what she gives her Master is complete and utter love, blind faith in what He says and does always. Slave is not another word for doormat, and anyone who thinks otherwise is surely mistaken.
Respectfully, carne EnKajira to Pasha Gor Slaver of Sardaria
Re: The making of a Master and a slave
Are you correcting Me here?
It is that simple for Me.
A slave without a Master or any to serve is what?
A Master remains a Master with or without a slave. A Master, masters many many things, including self. A slave is not a necessary component of a Masters ability to be a master. I agree it is an appreciative component to have, but not absolutely necassary.
I agree with some of your words but not all, partners? Never. This smacks of equality. Also having a quick temper does not make one an abuser? What if one controls the temper?
Slave is not another word for doormat no, the day a doormat can stir My loins or make Me chuckle or frown then maybe I'll consider collaring the odd horsehair mat.
reply to Master BW1
carne is not argueing You, Master, and if You feel that she is being offensive in anyway, please contact her Master, she simply sees things different.
Yes a Master helps build a slave, that is simple fact, by nuturing her, helping her see the beauty inside herself, teaching her to love herself unconditionally.
But, argueabley, a slave can exist without a Master, as they can serve in other manners, such as in a job, raising a child so on and so forth down the line.
As far as being partners, carne simply was stating in a releationship such as one of this nature, two become one, and its give and take, as determined by the Master. Carne is free at anytime to neg her Master of something, though He alone may say if she is worthy of such, or if she is simply being selfish. He determines my wanys and my needs.
carne and her mun are slave, at the teaching of thier Master, this is what she has grown to believe, and btw carne could to things on a doormat that are quite entertaining :)
Also upon anger, a Master who controls His temper, Masters Himself, those who strike from anger are what she refers to as abusers. People get confused, there are Masters, Dominants, Abusers and Bullies, its knowing the difference thats tough enough.
respectfully carne En Kajira to Pasha Gor Slaver of Sardaria
Edited by carne at: 8/26/99 5:33:42 pm
"carne is not argueing You, Master, and if You feel that she is being offensive in anyway, please contact her Master, she simply sees things different."
I have no intention of running off to your Master carne, I can handle Myself on here in debate. The fact that your Master allows you to post here is testament that you can handle your “own” corner in a debate. We are not in a room or a tavern. Speaking freely is allowed here and it would be hypocritical of me to infer that you be silent. Though I also think a slave is a slave is a slave, and where ever that slave speaks with a master that slave should do so with that in mind, they are a slave. Agreeing or not, is not the important thing here, the fact that people debate is.
An opening line of “It is not that simple” is a correction by you to Me.
An opening line that carries a little impudence with it also. I agree with your right to disagree but not in such a manner. However I also understand how difficult it is when interacting through this medium to actually “read”, how and what is being said.
So let us carry on this thread. ;)
“But, argueabley, a slave can exist without a Master, as they can serve in other manners, such as in a job, raising a child so on and so forth down the line.”
Yes the big one here is the word “arguably”. Then again I did actually say this “ A slave without a Master or any to serve is what?”
When at work you are serving Masters albeit masters of the “buck”. I do not see how raising children can be a definition of a slave? Unless you use the word “slave” as in “slaving” over the cooker or the washing etc.
“As far as being partners, carne simply was stating in a releationship such as one of this nature, two become one, and its give and take, as determined by the Master. Carne is free at anytime to neg her Master of something, though He alone may say if she is worthy of such, or if she is simply being selfish. He determines my wanys and my needs. “
I agree, except that the word partners as I have said before smacks of some sort of equality. Though what you have just said above does not sound like a partnership to Me. Again it is a play on words and only supports My earlier statement that this can be a difficult medium to interact and debate within.
“carne and her mun are slave, at the teaching of thier Master, this is what she has grown to believe, and btw carne could to things on a doormat that are quite entertaining :) ”
Now, you have got Me thinking, has your Master thought about getting WELCOME tattooed on His chest? ;)
“Also upon anger, a Master who controls His temper, Masters Himself, those who strike from anger are what she refers to as abusers. People get confused, there are Masters, Dominants, Abusers and Bullies, its knowing the difference thats tough enough. ”
Again your words ring true, after reading your post it seems you disagree yet ultimately agree, why didn’t you just agree? I did state that the first step was self-mastery.
Of course for many being a slave or a Master is more than I stated but, I stated what are necessary base components. And it is that simple for Me.
I still stand by My thoughts on this a slave without a Master or any to serve is what? A Master still has to master himself and His actions.
I wish you well carne and look forward to being “corrected” on this again ;)
furthering the debate
Greetings once more to You all, it is carnes sincerest wish You enjoy this little exercise in free range thinking between her and the Master, as it proves one more crucial point, a slave should always be smart. Pleasure of the flesh disappears quickly, while the mind can last far beyond.
It is enjoyable for carne to excercise her realm of thoughts, and perhaps they are not as exact as that of what her Master may wish, but agreeing to disagree solves many problems simply.
Carne will of course adress each point the Master made, as its naturally to defend what one believes, even if others may share or not her views.
Argueing is not what carne is trying to do Master, and once more if thats what it seems, she is deeply sorry. She, like most woman, get defensive of others who question who they are. Why is carne & mun a slave, certainly not because she was clubbed in the head and dragged into this life, though it would be intrigueing. It is part of who she is, by the way she was raised and all that happened inside her life from birth to now. Her submission to her Master was not a quick thing, she made sure she knew Him, trusted Him completely and could be safe with Him.
A slave can infact exist without a Master, why, because even before carne met hers, she was stil a slave. She serves in a job, waiting upon people, pleasing them with friendly service and extreme knowledgability.
She served at home, to a child, that she affectionately nicknamed "Lil Mistress". Children, especially infants are particularly demanding of one. They have no sense of time, they want what they want and at that they want it now. They do not understand patience, nor do they have it.
Serving, is serving, no matter the form in which You do it in. You can serve a religious group, a cult, a whole military line up if thats Your thing. (Men in Uniform, Woohoo)
Now partner ship, this here is where the complexity of the debate begins. If two people open a business together, and one puts up 75% and the other 25%, are they not still partners? This is close to the same theory, You do not have to be equal to be partners.
Um, Master, lets not talk about tattoos, its a sore subject for carne and Master, and a long story :: peeks at the bull inked onto her breast, and shakes her head :: Slaves test there Masters, not always in the brightest ways.
Anyway Master, carne hopes to talk to You again soon, either here or via emails. She appreciates Your strength and intelligence. Be well and safe travels :)
Carne sees the point You are trying to make, but its way off base. it is like saying because carne is en`girl and carries the whip, she is a Mistress over others on Masters chain and thats not the case at all.
You serve the Ubar because Your pledged to a Homestone, it is a choice You make, to be honorable.
Carne serves her Master simply from need, she has no choices, she loves Him, respects Him and honors Him with all she does.
so tell us what makes a slave?
I offer greetings and well wishes to all. Such a very interesting topic and thought provoking responses. I regret that I had not found this board earlier for it seems the subject has already been exhausted here. I hope a few more comments are still welcome.
Each time I hear this question my mind returns to the quote from one of the delicious books by John Norman... "I belong to him. I am his slave," her heart whispers to her. Perhaps while any dominant man with a desire to master a woman or women and to see her captive to his desires is actually a Master, might the question be 'What is it about a Master that entices you?'
For it does seem that while a certain Master may bring one slave girl trembling and weak to her knees another Master will elict only an obedient response as she carries out His command, yes?
Each man holds within himself a certain measure of power that as he grows older and more knowledgable either grows into something that makes him truely a Master, or frustrates him into becomin
so tell us what makes a slave, continued
*reviews her odd post with a lifted brow and tries to fix it*
~ or frustrates him into becoming an abuser.
I for one, do not know what makes a Master that can bring a girl to her knees breathless with only a spoken word. I only know I love it beyond comprehension and do enjoy exploring this captive condition we as slaves have.
I would think if the slave satisfies their owner well enough then to that owner they are a good slave. Not sure it matters what anyone else thinks. As far as what makes a good Master? Not sure exactly, perhaps one that can keep in proper perspective/focused the slave(s) he or she has.
Perhaps this is overly simplistic... dunno.
»§«:*´`³¤³´`*:»§« khara »§«:*´`³¤³´`*:»§« Property of Bloodletter the Assassin
Re: so tell us what makes a slave?
Below are some quotes and an essay written by a slave's mun of what she expects and knows is expected of her when making a slave char.Just food for thought
"The demeaning of men, whereas it is permitted to, and
not unknown among, free women, is not permitted to
female slaves. Such, on their part, can be a capital offense."
- Magician of Gor, Pg. 227
"You are slave. You are owned. You are a female. You will be forced to be a woman. The Gorean man will accept no compromise on your femininity, not from a slave. She will be what he wishes, and that is a woman, fully, and his. If necessary, you will be whipped or starved. You may fight your Master. He will, if he wishes, allow this to prolong the sport of your conquest., but in the end, it is you who are slave, it is you who will lose. On earth, you had society at your back, he could not so much as speak harshly to you but you would rush away or summon magistrates; here, however, society is not at your back, but his. It will abet him in his wishes, for you are only slave; you will have no one to call - nowhere to run; you will be alone with him and at his mercy. Further, he has not been conditioned with counter instinctual value sets, programmed with guilt, taught self-hatred. He has been taught pride and has, in the very air he breathes, imbibed the mastery of females. They are different men. They are not earthlings. They are Goreans. They are strong, they are hard, and they will conquer you. For a man of earth, you might never be a woman. For a man of Gor, I assure you, my dear, sooner or later you will be."
"Tribesman of Gor" p. 12
Exquisite beauty and absolute obedience.
NO curiosity.
A kajira always kneels in the presence of a Free Person.
Never strike a Free Person. This is punishable by death, torture or impalement
ANYTHING with or without reason may be done to a slave.
A slave never touches money.
A slave has NO rights.
A kajira always stays busy
'You cannot punish me!' she cried. 'You are not my masters!' 'Any free person can punish an errant slave girl,' I said. 'Surely you do not think that her behaviour fails to be subject to supervision and correction as soon as she is out of her Master's sight?'
Subj: The meaning of RP and RPing as a slave.......
This is an OOC letter to go out to all those whom have a Slave SN or are thinking about starting one, this is what is to be expected as a slave character and it's mun...... I myself have been playing in Gor for over 2yrs now and have seen many problems as far as muns of slaves act and their characters...........
1. A slave does as told with NO questions ask..... the meaning of a slave is obedience and loyalty..... not questioning their Master.... if their Master tells them to jump off a cliff then they are to jump of a cliff without hesitation..... there is no way around it..... a slave is property, an animal ... they are not considered human.......
let me throw a book quote at you for this and you will probably understand better:
"If they did not obey.... they would be slain. As slaves, they were commanded: as slaves, did they fail to comply, they would be put to death... They had no choice, They would obey."
Marauders of Gor, Pg. 245
"It is well to help a slave keep clearly in mind that she is only an article of property"
Savages of Gor Pg. 103
2. The mun of a slave should not complain at all.... for their character is a slave.... a slave has no rights at all except that in which their Master allows them to have..... if the Master does not want to see the slave or RP with the slave then that is the Master's choice...... a slave character has absolutely no say.... a whiny mun will only cause poor RP therefore causing the RP experience to be unenjoyable..... RP is a game it is not Real Life ... it is a fantasy.... for those whom wish to take it to heart and take it personally there is a place for those whom cannot tell the difference between real life and fantasy..... that place is known as a mental institution..... if you are unable to keep your personal feeling out of the game there is no place for you in Gor.... Gor is a very UNFAIR place and especially if you are slave...... so be prepared to be upset or bored at times because that is at the whim of the Master if the slave is to be involved at that time NOT THE MUNS descision......
3. Jealousy in a slave is FROWNED upon greatly....... a jealous slave is a worthless slave.... because jealousy in a slave is an indirect way of telling your Master that you don't approve meaning you are telling your Master how it should be when it's the other way around..... the thing a jealous slave is good for is NOTHING.... absolutely nothing.... they only place a jealous slave belongs is in the City of Dust meaning DEAD..... yes, that is what I said... DEAD as a doorknob...... so take this to heart..... a jealous slave is a dead slave
4. Now.... slaves and their Master's Mistresses, Mates and FC's..... a slave show no jealousy that which her Master likes or wants..... if a Master choices to Mate or Join then the slave will under no circumstances try to get in the way of anything their Master wants..... it is natural for an FW to show dislike to slaves but never let it go noticed by the Master... because their dislike is shown to the slave and not the Master of the slave ..... but a slave MUST obey and be loyal to their Master therefore not showing jealousy in any way shape or form ... whether it be for a Mistress or another slave..... showing jealousy is only a way to dishonor your Master's words or decisions and doing so you are displeasing which is a reason for punishment, being sold or the worst case would be death which is usually what happens..... so it would be in your best interest not to show jealousy no matter what ... because a Master's word is LAW...... and what happens when a law is broken? Some form of punishment in one way or another....
5. One last thing to always remember..... a Master's command always comes before or supersedes a freewoman's command.....
How about another book quote
'" Then she cried out to me. Run, Judy! Fetch Help!"
"Do not." said the man.
" Yes Master" I said. I looked at LadyElicia. "Forgive me Mistress," I said, " I am a slave girl who had been commanded by a man." I knelt to one side.
Slavegirl of Gor
Pg 392
Re: so tell us what makes a slave?
"NO curiosity....
....A kajira always stays busy"
Actually, while it is sometimes said that curiosity is unbecoming in a slave, the human who has NO curiosity would, of necessity, be unbearably dull. Gorean men don't usually like dull women. As for staying busy -
"'What does the girl do in her free time?' asked Audrey.
`Much what she pleases,' I said. `She will have friends among the other slaves. She walks, she visits. She exercises, she reads. Within limits she can do what she wants to do.' "
pg 249 Beasts of GOR
- - - - - - - - - -
"1. A slave does as told with NO questions ask..... the meaning of a slave is obedience and loyalty..... not questioning their Master.... if their Master tells them to jump off a cliff then they are to jump of a cliff without hesitation..... "
The survival instinct is probably the strongest instinct there is. Any slave who would blithely jump off a cliff and end her life with NO QUESTIONS ASKED is obviously deranged.... or too stupid to be allow to live anyway.
- - - - - - - - - -
"2. The mun of a slave should not complain at all.... "
LMAO The player is not a slave and can therefor complain if she jolly well feels like it. Yes, indeed this is only a game - and the idea is for ALL participants to have fun, not just the male players. A jerk of a master will also cause poor RP and render the role play unenjoyable.
By the way, how many slaves in the books were actually killed, hmmm?
Re: so tell us what makes a slave?
what makes this slave? the need to see her Master smile, to feel His touch, to know His love. she serves Him because He knows her, her needs, her dreams.
what makes this slave? the knowledge that in the confines of His collar she is free. she is free to love, honor, and worship Him. she is free to be honest, free of guilt for her sexuality, as He commands no less than her honesty in who she is.
what makes this slave? the trust she has that He will teach her, guide her, comfort her, and protect her. she is His property by design, His toy by command. she is His devoted slave, not by the steel He keeps around her throat, but by the chains He has around her heart.
what makes this slave? the hunger to be as He chooses her to be. to see Him proud of her service. to know she brings Him joy and pleasure. to know she can anticipate His needs and fulfill them.
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