the ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 264
(1/21/01 13:16) Reply
Re: See what I mean?
Where did I ever condone gor?
As for these words, they stand by themselves loco, they were said, they are meant to be taken at face value.
5)"Subjugation of the Weak: This principle acts as the inverse to the tenet described above. In order that the race may grow stronger, it is necessary that the weaker and lesser adaptive elements of Gorean society be diminished and controlled" - Marcus_of_Ar {Silk And Steel, brother}
"They should have their necks snapped at birth"- Zeb {Silk and Steel, founder}
Explain these quotes and dozens like them away if you can loco.
I let the words and the idea behind them speak for themselves.
Oh come on
It is very important when quoting from a source to quote the entire source. Otherwise, the meanings of the words take on a whole different angle, and can confuse people into believing things that are not true.
I'm not here to defend what Marcus or Zeb says. This is an obsession you have that I would rather just ignore. It doesn't concern me and isn't the issue at all.
I could say something like: "Man, that guy in the movie Shogun was a real jerk. People like him just should not exist."
And anyone could easily bring part of that quote up to make it sound however they like. We could be talking about some other man in some other film, and you could quote me as to saying: "People like him just should not exist." Suddenly, you've used my words to mean something else entirely.
Of course, the manner this was done here was a little more complicated, pointed, and accusatory. Like I said, an obsession.
Tal, Minxie,
As I stated, don't let anyone tell you what to believe. They would like you to believe all sorts of things, and they will go to great lengths. The proof is right here in front of you. You don't need to be told to wear a seatbelt.
the ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 265
(1/21/01 19:39) Reply
Re: Oh come on
First loco the qoutes are not taken out of context they are presented in conext, I did leave out the context of Zeb's quote, becuase I know we all know what was said, but to put it into context for those that do not: Zeb was speaking about children born with genetic ailments, specifically down's syndrome to which he said, and I qoute, "they should have their necks snapped at birth".
How could that or what Marcus says be taken out of context.
I could say something like: "Man, that guy in the movie Shogun was a real jerk. People like him just should not exist."
And anyone could easily bring part of that quote up to make it sound however they like. We could be talking about some other man in some other film, and you could quote me as to saying: "People like him just should not exist." Suddenly, you've used my words to mean something else entirely.
What are you going on about loco, if we were talking about said person form this movie shogun and tyou said this person should not exist how could that be misconstrued?
As for what is at issue here you say, "I'm not here to defend what Marcus or Zeb says. This is an obsession you have that I would rather just ignore. It doesn't concern me and isn't the issue at all".
Far from an obsession loco, these people are the keaders of gor, they poswt and write what gor is, they make up the rules, they interpret what Lange said. You may or not agree with all or some of their saying, beliefs ideas and writings, but they make what gor is.
When people go to the ss they read Marcus and Zeb and Bear. Not what you believe.
ndn obviously does not have the same conception of slavery as Bear, nor do many others.
I am against gor as seen by the writings of these people, that is gor that I as you put it have an obsession with.
As for the truth loco, the ss rarely if ever speaks it when it comes to factual scientific data.
I am not against a consensual "slave" /"master" lifestyle, these people feel that a slave should be as slave.
You yourself loco have said elsewhere on this board {to paraphrase} that it is a shame slavery is legal and it is only so due to the North American culture..
I also am still waiting for those quotes showing that I at one time supported gor as a lifestyle, gor that is as seen by Marcus, Zeb and Bear.
the ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 852
(12/6/01 15:58) Reply
On A Sad Anniversary
http://www.coolwomen.org/coolwomen/cwsite.nsf/vwFrames/HomePage?OpenDocument
In 1998, of all victims of crime against the person, women made up the vast majority of victims:
- of sexual assault (85%)
- criminal harassment (78%)
- other sexual offenses (74%)
- kidnapping or abduction (62%) &
- common assault (52%).
4 out of 5 victims of spousal homicide are female.
Young women are most at risk of being killed by their partner.
In Canada, 100 women are murdered each year by current or past partners. A woman is raped every 17 minutes. More than 80 per cent of women in the labour force have experienced sexual harassment at work.
We mourn the murders of:
Genevieve Bergeron, 21; Helene Colgan, 23; Nathalie Croteau, 23; Barbara Daigneault, 22; Anne-Marie Edward, 21; Maud Haviernick, 29; Barbara Maria Klucznik, 31; Maryse Laganiere, 25; Maryse Leclair, 23; Anne-Marie Lemay, 27; Sonia Pelletier, 28; Michele Richard, 21; Annie St-Arneault, 23; Annie Turcotte, 21.
On December 6, 1989, a man entered the School of Engineering at Ecole Polytechnique, University of Montreal. He went to several classrooms, saying:
"You [women] have no right being here" and separated the women from the men. He then systematically murdered these 14 young women. In his suicide letter he wrote:
"...I have decided to send the feminists,
who have always ruined my life, to their Maker."
According to Human Rights Watch, the largest human rights group in the United States, the groups organized under the banner of the Northern Alliance/United Front have ‘repeatedly committed serious human rights abuses and violations of international humanitarian law, including killings, indiscriminate aerial bombardment and shelling, direct attacks on civilians, summary executions, rape, persecution on the basis of religion or ethnicity, the recruitment and use of children as soldiers, and the use of antipersonnel mines’ (Human Rights Watch Backgrounder, October 6, 2001). Many of these violations are widespread, or systematic, which is a criterion of crimes against humanity. Their abuses have been well documented and many of the violations date from recent years, including summary executions, burning of houses and looting, particularly targeting specific ethnic groups.
The United States led bombing of Afghanistan killed hundreds of innocent men, women and children, and with an estimated 5,000 or more unexploded cluster bombs now littering the countryside, we can expect more deaths and injuries in the coming weeks and months.
http://www.amnesty.ca/library/news/mde1510801.htm
December 5, 2001
Geneva Convention Breached in Occupied Territories:
The Declaration which the High Contracting Parties are expected to agree upon reaffirms the principles of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
The declaration also reaffirms the "illegality of settlements" and the "need to safeguard and guarantee the rights and access of all inhabitants to the Holy Places" in Jerusalem.
The High Contracting Parties express "deep concern at the deteriorating humanitarian situation in the field. They deplore the great number of civilian victims, in particular children and other vulnerable groups, due to indiscriminate or disproportionate use of force and due to lack of respect for international humanitarian law".
It calls on the Occupying Power (Israel) to "immediately refrain from committing grave breaches involving any of the acts committed under art. 147 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, such as
"wilful killing, torture, unlawful deportation, wilful deprivation of the rights of fair and regular trial, extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly".
It repeats the obligation on High Contracting Parties under Article 146 of the Convention to enact effective penal sanctions for persons who have committed, or ordered, "grave breaches" of the Convention.
It calls "upon the Occupying Power to refrain from perpetrating other violations of the Convention, in particular reprisals against protected persons [Palestinians] and their property, collective penalties, unjustified restrictions to free movement, and to treat protected persons humanely, without any adverse distinctions founded on race, colour, religion or faith..."
Since the beginning of the intifada more than:
700 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli security forces.
Most were unlawfully killed;
they included at least 150 children and 60 Palestinians who were assassinated.
Palestinian detainees frequently suffer torture or other ill treatment under interrogation. At least 34 people are held under administrative detention orders without charge or trial. Hundreds of Palestinians from the Occupied Territories were tried before military courts in trials which fell short of international standards. Collective punishments against Palestinians include closures of towns and villages, demolition of more than 550 Palestinian homes and prolonged curfews.
Through shootings and suicide bombs Palestinian armed groups have deliberately killed more than 230 Israelis including more than 170 civilians.
the ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 1208
(8/30/06 20:30) Reply
Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power
Rumours of a link between the US first family and the Nazi war machine have circulated for decades. Now the Guardian can reveal how repercussions of events that culminated in action under the Trading with the Enemy Act are still being felt by today's president
Ben Aris in Berlin and Duncan Campbell in Washington
Saturday September 25, 2004
The Guardian
George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.
The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.
His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.
The evidence has also prompted one former US Nazi war crimes prosecutor to argue that the late senator's action should have been grounds for prosecution for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
The new documents, many of which were only declassified last year, show that even after America had entered the war and when there was already significant information about the Nazis' plans and policies, he worked for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German businesses that financed Hitler's rise to power.
It has also been suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty.
Remarkably, little of Bush's dealings with Germany has received public scrutiny, partly because of the secret status of the documentation involving him. But now the multibillion dollar legal action for damages by two Holocaust survivors against the Bush family, and the imminent publication of three books on the subject are threatening to make Prescott Bush's business history an uncomfortable issue for his grandson, George W. bush [and the Rpublicans]
The documents reveal that the firm he worked for, Brown Brothers Harriman (BBH), acted as a US base for the German industrialist, Fritz Thyssen, who helped finance Hitler in the 1930s before falling out with him at the end of the decade.
The Guardian has seen evidence that shows Bush was the director of the New York-based Union Banking Corporation (UBC) that represented Thyssen's US interests and he continued to work for the bank after America entered the war.
Bush was also on the board of at least one of the companies that formed part of a multinational network of front companies to allow Thyssen to move assets around the world.
Thyssen owned the largest steel and coal company in Germany and grew rich from Hitler's efforts to re-arm between the two world wars. One of the pillars in Thyssen's international corporate web, UBC, worked exclusively for, and was owned by, a Thyssen-controlled bank in the Netherlands.
More tantalising are Bush's links to the Consolidated Silesian Steel Company (CSSC), based in mineral rich Silesia on the German-Polish border. During the war, the company made use of Nazi slave labour from the concentration camps, including Auschwitz. The ownership of CSSC changed hands several times in the 1930s, but documents from the US National Archive declassified last year link Bush to CSSC, although it is not clear if he and UBC were still involved in the company when Thyssen's American assets were seized in 1942.
Three sets of archives spell out Prescott Bush's involvement.
All three are readily available, thanks to the efficient US archive system and a helpful and dedicated staff at both the Library of Congress in Washington and the National Archives at the University of Maryland.
The first set of files, the Harriman papers in the Library of Congress, show that Prescott Bush was a director and shareholder of a number of companies involved with Thyssen.
The second set of papers, which are in the National Archives, are contained in vesting order number 248 which records the seizure of the company assets. What these files show is that on October 20 1942 the alien property custodian seized the assets of the UBC, of which Prescott Bush was a director. Having gone through the books of the bank, further seizures were made against two affiliates, the Holland-American Trading Corporation and the Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation. By November, the Silesian-American Company, another of Prescott Bush's ventures, had also been seized.
The third set of documents, also at the National Archives, are contained in the files on IG Farben, who was prosecuted for war crimes.
A report issued by the Office of Alien Property Custodian in 1942 stated of the companies that "since 1939, these (steel and mining) properties have been in possession of and have been operated by the German government and have undoubtedly been of considerable assistance to that country's war effort".
Prescott Bush was the founder of the Bush political dynasty and was once considered a potential presidential candidate himself.
Like his son, George, and grandson, George W, he went to Yale where he was, again like his descendants, a member of the secretive and influential Skull and Bones student society.
Lissmann said: "If we have a positive ruling from the court it will cause [president] Bush huge problems and make him personally liable to pay compensation."
The US government and the Bush family deny all the claims against them.
In addition to Eva Schweitzer's book, two other books are about to be published that raise the subject of Prescott Bush's business history.
"This was the mechanism by which Hitler was funded to come to power, this was the mechanism by which the Third Reich's defence industry was re-armed, this was the mechanism by which Nazi profits were repatriated back to the American owners, this was the mechanism by which investigations into the financial laundering of the Third Reich were blunted," said Loftus, who is vice-chairman of the Holocaust Museum in St Petersburg.
"The Union Banking Corporation was a holding company for the Nazis, for Fritz Thyssen," said Loftus. "At various times, the Bush family has tried to spin it, saying they were owned by a Dutch bank and it wasn't until the Nazis took over Holland that they realised that now the Nazis controlled the apparent company and that is why the Bush supporters claim when the war was over they got their money back. Both the American treasury investigations and the intelligence investigations in Europe completely bely that, it's absolute horseshit. They always knew who the ultimate beneficiaries were."
"There is no one left alive who could be prosecuted but they did get away with it," said Loftus. "As a former federal prosecutor, I would make a case for Prescott Bush, his father-in-law (George Walker) and Averill Harriman [to be prosecuted] for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
They remained on the boards of these companies knowing that they were of financial benefit to the nation of Germany.
Loftus said Prescott Bush must have been aware of what was happening in Germany at the time.
What is also at issue is how much money Bush made from his involvement. Citing sources in "the banking and intelligence communities" and suggesting that the Bush family, through George Herbert Walker and Prescott, got $1.5m out of the involvement.
The third person going into print on the subject is John Buchanan, 54, a Miami-based magazine journalist who started examining the files while working on a screenplay. Last year, Buchanan published his findings in the venerable but small-circulation New Hampshire Gazette under the headline "Documents in National Archives Prove George Bush's Grandfather Traded With the Nazis - Even After Pearl Harbor".
In the article, Buchanan, who has worked mainly in the trade and music press with a spell as a muckraking reporter in Miami, claimed that "the essential facts have appeared on the internet and in relatively obscure books but were dismissed by the media and Bush family as undocumented diatribes".
The Bush family have largely responded with no comment to any reference to Prescott Bush. Brown Brothers Harriman also declined to comment.
The Bush family recently approved a flattering biography of Prescott Bush entitled Duty, Honour, Country by Mickey Herskowitz. The publishers, Rutledge Hill Press, promised the book would "deal honestly with Prescott Bush's business relationships with Nazi industrialists".
More than 60 years after Prescott Bush came briefly under scrutiny at the time of a faraway war, his grandson is facing a different kind of scrutiny but one underpinned by the same perception that, for some people, war can be a profitable business.
the ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 1213
(9/3/06 14:07) Reply
Re: Gor As Naziism; Survival of The Fittest, is natural? HarU.S. Treasury Department's Undersecretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence,Stuart Levey, said:
- that banks that deal with Iran or North Korea were "just like" those that once handled Nazi assets;
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