Traumaddict Traveller in the arts
Posts: 21
(1/9/02 8:51 am) Reply
Mothers & Daughters Anonymous
Normally we don't talk about stuff like this - at least not on the EZ Boards I have been to, but I have to share this with someone. I don't really expect a lot of feedback, any would be nice, but here goes.
It's kinda hard to sum up.... My mother and I have been having a lot of issues lately - to the point where she did not speak to me for 6 months after my son was born - yep she missed out on all of that. We have tried to mend the fences a few times, only to be stymied by past anger coming up and getting in the way. Well, for the first time we really talked about it. Not about everything, and I still think she full of @#%$ on a few major counts, but I think this is the beginning of the end of the cold war that's kept us apart. I want so much for her to be a part of my son's life, and my life as well. I also miss my little brothers (both in high school, living with her, also not speaking to me.)
I have apologized for my part of it, she is rather stoic about her end, but we have agreed to put the past behind us and begin working on becoming friends again. This is so important. She just had exploratory surgery done in her abdomen to see if she has cancer (again! - she is in remission from breast cancer for 1 1/2 yrs now). Thankfully, at 43, she has a clean bill of health at last. WHat a horrible 2 yrs this has been, and I fell like it's finally beginning to brighten up a bit. She wants us (hubby, Andy &me) to come for dinner...
Well, anyway, wish me luck.
Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood. - Helen Keller
HRH Queen of Valimar
Posts: 40
(1/9/02 11:28 am) Reply
Re: Mothers & Daughters Anonymous
" I have apologized for my part of it, she is rather stoic about her end, but we have agreed to put the past behind us and begin working on becoming friends again. This is so important. She just had exploratory surgery done in her abdomen to see if she has cancer (again! - she is in remission from breast cancer for 1 1/2 yrs now). Thankfully, at 43, she has a clean bill of health at last. WHat a horrible 2 yrs this has been, and I fell like it's finally beginning to brighten up a bit. She wants us (hubby, Andy &me) to come for dinner..."
First off, let me say that I do hope your mother has a long and healthier future.
Secondly, it is quite difficult to be in the position you both are/were in. Family ties are both strange and important to most folks. My mom and I don't always see eye to eye, and there have been times when she hasn't called for a few weeks. I always cave in and call her because I feel that she is who she is, I am who I am, and that we'll have to agree to disagree. I rarely bring up or contribute to any heavy duty discussions these days.
I often take emotional abuse from her mostly because there will be a time when she will no longer be alive and I want there to be peace amongst the family members. And, I realize that she does not understand how she comes across. I also feel it is a "generational" thing, for example, she does not understand why I do not believe in God (s); and she does not understand why I don't tell my 34 year old daughter that she needs to find a man and settle down
In some families, harmony is not often possible, the differences run deep.
I do wish you, your husband and Andy, a pleasant visit with your mom. Always remember that you are a wonderful person, and its most important that you be pleased with yourself.
Traumaddict Traveller in the arts
Posts: 25
(1/9/02 3:33 pm) Reply
Re: Mothers & Daughters Anonymous
Quote: I often take emotional abuse from her mostly because there will be a time when she will no longer be alive and I want there to be peace amongst the family members. And, I realize that she does not understand how she comes across.
YES!!! That's exactly it. I think back on years of mother daughter conflicts, things I felt obligated to grit my teeth and bear; out of respect, out of duty, and out of love. It's hard coming to terms with the fact that over the years I have been mistreated - and mostly due to the fact that I just didn't open my mouth against it when part of me REALLY wanted to. As I moped around this evening, I came to realize just what you said - she doesn't realize how she comes across. If I am to have any type of relationship with her, most of it must be on her terms exclusively. ***sigh. I'm just beginning to see what a control-monster I must be since that bugs me so much.
As long as I treat my son differently, it will all be worth it. I want him to grow up a different person than I am - fortunately I can see that taking shape already. Unlike my own mother, I will live my life with that ever evolving goal of helping HIM to grow and blossom into the best man he can be. I will not begrudge him happinesses he is blessed (if I can use that term) enough to have that I have not had. (Like a loving father, like doting and sober grandparents and great grandparents, like SELF-ESTEEM.)
Thanks a million for your response, Lady. It's good to feel understood
Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood. - Helen Keller
HRH Queen of Valimar
Posts: 42
(1/10/02 11:33 am) Reply
Re: Mothers & Daughters Anonymous
" If I am to have any type of relationship with her, most of it must be on her terms exclusively. ***sigh. I'm just beginning to see what a control-monster I must be since that bugs me so much."
I don't think you are a control-monster; I think you just wanted to be understood and respected by your mom. She probably feels the same way, that she wants to be understood and respected. This type of situation creates "the revolving door of hurt feelings." As much as I don't like to admit this, there have been times that I have attempted to explain to my mom (in a very sophmoric manner) that we need to experience what each one of us is feeling when one verbalizes something to the other (in a non-judmental way). Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
"As long as I treat my son differently, it will all be worth it."
Bingo! And by doing the above with your son, you will be eliminating the cause of much strife for all involved. But we must also remember that "our parents use the only tools they know of." Hopefully, we know differently and better today how to communicate than our parents, and their parents before them.
Often times when I relate something to my Mom about when I was growing up, she appears shocked and says "she's sorry, she didn't realize it, but that's how she was raised." It is interesting that this topic is being discussed now; here is something my own daughter sent me today in an e-mail....
" Mom, I love you. You were truly the best mother anyone could have asked
for when I was growing up (not based strictly on the corn fritters either).
You were sweet and fun and NEVER mean or in a bad mood. Still don't know
how you did that without mood-influencing drugs. I wished you lived closer
so we could do dinner and the mall even now."
Now, I know I wasn't perfect and probably made some minor mistakes, but obviously, in the main scheme of things, I guess I was successful. Either that, or she really just likes my "corn fritters!"
Now, saunter over to my place, kick off your shoes and just relax!
ATHEISM WHATEVER FLOATS YOUR BOAT... My ezboard community
Traumaddict Traveller in the arts
Posts: 33
(1/11/02 12:45 am) Reply
Re: Mothers & Daughters Anonymous
What a nice message from your daughter! Watch out, you might get tagged with the nickname "Supermom" I think it is essential to demonstrate heartfelt gratitude to others, even if the help and kindness they have given you was their 'duty' or 'job.' It's uplifting to see that your daughter is so thoughtful that she remebered to thank you. How far does she live from you?
The 'revolving door' concept is something I have seen happen in many relationships, but especially in mother/daughter ones. For me, it's not as simple as just 'getting over' hurts and slights that have occured over the years. I used to be able to move on. It's getting harder because Mum sees no problem with the way she treats others. She is never sorry; I have never once seen her show remorse, no matter how unfair or hurtful she's been to anyone. ANd I can't tell you how many times I have apologized and turned things around so that I didn't go back and make the same misdeeds. So, it's frustrating, and thr whole balance of our relationship has been out of whack since the moment I hit puberty. I'm 26 now, you'd think things would be better instead of such a mess.
Many times my mom has related stories of her own torrid upbringing. Things her mom did to her that she said caused her so much pain and dashed her self-esteem to bits. I find it disturbing that she has found ways to do similar acts to me. She didn't learn. But I am learning.
It's complex. But I think this is the sort of conflict which we all experience with our folks/caregivers. It does me good to remember this, and treat it as a right of passage and a lesson, rather than some terrible wound I have to keep nursing. Thanks for lending an ear. You have been very caring and down to earth, and best of all, you didn't tell me to PRAY about it **giggle
Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood. - Helen Keller
HRH Queen of Valimar
Posts: 47
(1/11/02 1:11 pm) Reply
Re: Mothers & Daughters Anonymous
TA:
" What a nice message from your daughter! Watch out, you might get tagged with the nickname "Supermom"
I am sure if she put her mind to it, she'd recall at least one fact that would eliminate me from the "Supermom" competition
" I think it is essential to demonstrate heartfelt gratitude to others, even if the help and kindness they have given you was their 'duty' or 'job.'
Yes, I completely agree. In fact, we recently set up a board in the lobby of the nursing home I work in, and its called the "Thank You" board. Staff thanks each other, staff thanks the residents and their family members, and vice versa. Its good for everyone's morale.
"It's uplifting to see that your daughter is so thoughtful that she remebered to thank you."
She was always like that ( she's that way because of my genes)
" How far does she live from you?"
233 miles or 2.5 hours away
"Many times my mom has related stories of her own torrid upbringing. Things her mom did to her that she said caused her so much pain and dashed her self-esteem to bits. I find it disturbing that she has found ways to do similar acts to me. She didn't learn. But I am learning."
I still find it somewhat amazing that folks who have experienced some unhappiness, continue to pass it along, and not learn from it.
" It's complex. But I think this is the sort of conflict which we all experience with our folks/caregivers. It does me good to remember this, and treat it as a right of passage and a lesson, rather than some terrible wound I have to keep nursing."
Yes, you have learned and you have done well!
" Thanks for lending an ear."
Anytime, and you're welcome.
" You have been very caring and down to earth, and best of all, you didn't tell me to PRAY about it **giggle "
Now, saunter over to my place, kick off your shoes and just relax!
ATHEISM WHATEVER FLOATS YOUR BOAT... My ezboard community
Re: Mothers & Daughters Anonymous
I hope you don't mind a male poking his nose in here.
I don't know about mother/daughter relationships, not being one and not having one, (3 sons) but I would imagine that father/son relationships are often fraught with similar problems.
I have never not been on speaking terms, but there have been many, many times when there have been difficulties.
Perhaps the root of the problem lies in our inability to totally subjugate our egos. To allow for different perspectives.
("It's my belief pride is the chief cause in the decline in the number of husbands and wives"} - Roger Williams(?)
Not subjugated to the point of acquiesence in all things, but the willingness to be wrong. That's the part I find the most challenging. I heard this attitude described once as "The Old Lion V Young Lion" syndrome. The older lion (me) unwilling to accept the fact the the younger lion (son) has matured into his own man and does not need to be constantly advised on how to conduct his life. The old lion resents having another adult in his 'pride.'
Often I find myself about to offer advice not asked for and have to check myself. This can be difficult at the times you suspect your son is about to make a life-error. But they have to make their own mistakes. Another fact that is hard for a father (or mother) to accept.
Perhaps another factor is that the parent is constantly making adjustments in the relationship. This is necessary because the son/daughter is growing older while (in the son/daughter's eyes) the parent remains the same.
As the child grows, the parent has to make changes in their attitude towards them in all kinds of areas. (i.e. I'd never had a 32-year old son until last August. In five years time I will have a 37-year-old son - I've never had one of those before either.)
Unfortunately, (for me anyway) the parent seems to be always a year or two behind and is in a constant catchup situation. The son/daughter accordingly is constantly wondering why the parent can't accept their views and attitudes.
Having read this over, it doesn't make a whole bunch of sense but I have to get ready for work.
TA, I'm not about to advise you in any way. I've met neither you nor your mother. But just be assured that you are not alone. And if you have been miserable about the situation, then you can bet your mother has been too.
Hugs work well...
Regards
Peter E
PS. My sons' ages are 26,30 and 32.
Traumaddict Traveller in the arts
Posts: 44
(1/15/02 1:19 am) Reply
Re: Mothers & Daughters Anonymous
**Trauma sees Pete's nose and shrieks!
A man, it's a MAN! lol
A man's POV is something wonderful. Of course my hubby has his own take on the situation, which is to simply cut her out of my life for good completely. I'm not ready to do that, so I read your reply with my ears pricked up.
All of what you wrote made a lot of sense to me. Fathers and sons I think have the same types of problems (ie communication, old anger & hurt, the ego thing) but with different issues. I have seen sons who resent their fathers so much (as my uncles seem to have resented my grandfather) that they seem sad but clearly relieved when the father dies. On the other hand I have seen sons who live their lives in utter emulation of Daddy. They buy the same vehicles, want the same kinds of jobs etc. If you point these seemingly obvious facts/consistancies in either situation out to the son or the father, you will be faced with stoic denial.
I can't help but wonder if the same isn't true for moms & daughters?
The "old Lion" analogy holds true for moms & daughters as well, but tends to manifest itself in different ways. Most mothers are delighted to see their children's children, but even they face difficulty and conflict when they see their daughters caring for the child in a dissimilar way than they themselves did. (did that make any sense? I'm not too articulate this early in the am.) lol And then youhave mothers like mine, who sadly, have resented their daughters since they hit puberty, and it goes downhill from there. I don't know whether it could be that these types of women percieve their daughter's burgeoning sexuality and womanhood as a threat on multiple fronts, but that makes sense to me in a sick and Freudian kind of way.
Believe me, I have sat and analyzed and tore this whole situation apart for years now. This is only my current theory.
I think people love as they are capable of loving. Some have a great capacity to love and accept love. Others have miniscule in comparison. This comes out in the way we treat others, and the way we treat ourselves. What kinds of people we keep around us in our lives and how we treat them.
Thanks, Pete. You guys let me know if I'm getting to be a pain with my soap-opera drama-queen life here. (never a dull moment) lol
Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood. - Helen Keller
Re: Mothers & Daughters Anonymous
TA,
An interesting, cogent reply.
Let's not forget however; sons/daughters/fathers/mothers/sisters/brothers, whatever, are under absolutely no obligation to like each other.
There may well be a psychological or some societal pressure to 'love,' but not everybody is likeable. And this necessarily includes our close relatives.
This can sometimes manifest itself in guilt which in turn might produce over-sensitivity and even paranoia.
It's a complicated issue. But it's worth remembering that you can love without liking.
I've read this discussion with interest over the last few days, without having anything material to contribute. If I may, I'd like to 'butt in' now.
You've mentioned a couple of times about how your relationship with your mother soured once you hit puberty. Often when kids reach this age a major change occurs in the relationship with parents, in that the child now begins to test the boundaries of the world for themselves and no longer automatically accepts advice from parents as a 'given.' With this can come a sense of loss for the parent, in that the child is now a different person, a new person, and no longer an extension of the parent. This sense of loss can be profound. We can all decide to (intellectually) allow our kids the freedom to be themselves, but somewhere inside us, within our emotional core, there is still a sense of oneness, that the child's entering of the exploratory teenage years - appears to sever.
Some parents just accept it, especially if the example from their own parents allows them to. Some parents have not been set constructive examples from their own parents. Some parents don't accept it and find ways, subtle or 'in your face', to try somehow to drag the child back into the metaphorical womb. No one is asking the parent to stop caring, which is often the rebuke the parent comes back with in this instance. The key in fact for the parent is not to stop caring, but care enough to allow the child to go free. When we love someone, letting them go free is one of the hardest things we'll ever have to do. For their own mental and spiritual welfare, the child (when they grow into their twenties) needs to make this explicit to the parent. But in the end - the parent has to understand this themselves.
One of the most shocking and sad revelations for a boy, is when he realises his father isn’t infallible. I’d say that applies well to daughters and mothers as well.
People carry the baggage of their upbringing and their lives with them wherever they go. It's not easy to let go. And sometimes plain ol' pride gets in the way of real, heartfelt communication. The greatest loss in relationships dissolving into argument and the subsequent erecting of barriers is that these things are the thieves of time. We have (I believe) an infinite capacity to give, to love, but the one thing that is not infinite is time. Your mother will never be able to regain those first 6 months of your son's life. Never. With all humanity's extraordinary discoveries and inventions - a device to regain wasted time still does not exist. That's why each and every moment is precious, much too precious to fritter away in argument. (Fritter? huh? Sheeesh, with LV's mention of corn fritters - yum- now I've got fritters on the brain. )
You have a new circle now, you, your husband and son. It’s your circle as a free human being. That circle can interweave with other circles, your mother’s, your friends. You’ll never again be your mother’s ‘little girl,’ but you can be the whole woman who is her daughter, her friend, the mother of her grandchild. Life is a series of stages, none more or less valid than any other. We should celebrate them all, but not fight and kick and claw to hold on to the stages that have already passed. Rather than mourn their passing, we should celebrate their having been part of us.
Perhaps your mother will come to accept this.
The only key we have to anyone’s psyche is the key to our own. You can decide only on how you will act, both for your own emotional welfare and that of your family. At the age you are now, you have no requirement to cow tow to your mother’s point of view, in fact the one thing you owe yourself and your mother is your honesty. She can then choose to act in whatever fashion she wishes. She faces an extremely important choice, and it is her choice, in that any time with you and your family she lets slip away will be gone forever.
My own mother died a few years ago. We were always close. My parents split when I was just into my early teens and I rarely saw my father for the next 20 years. My mother always respected me enough to have me make my own screw ups, put in a word here and there. Just bits and pieces of what she’d learned. That was enough for both of us, in fact much more than it might at first appear. I see my father more often now than I have since I was a kid. We talk, laugh, shoot the breeze. There’s a bunch of stuff we could talk about, but he’s 80 years old now so time is especially precious. Too precious to waste on ‘might have beens.’ The now is what I value most. Each moment, every moment.
I'd posit that that oneness is never really severed, just allowed to play out on an increasingly long 'string.' The joy in relationships is allowing that string to bend and extend and even reinvent itself, but never break.
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