Re: Interesting
You mean debate you? No ... that would mean I would have to give your words more value and yourself more credit than you and they are actually worth.
From what I have read you and your views are more of a mind with those persons that caused this recent tragedy, and hate and discord are your driving factor.
the ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 790
(9/12/01 19:17) Reply
Re: Interesting
First you show your ignorance.
I do not participate in any form of Gor, AOL or otherwise.
Rp or Rt.
The persons that commited the atack on freedom and democracy have everything in common with Goreans and their so called honour.
They acted as they felt, as they believed, they took final responsibility for their actions.
They used a "sword" the circle of it to terrorise and remove the freedom from certain individuals.
The only difference is scale, and as we have seen on this board and others there are many Goreans whom lament the fact that slavery is illegal, that there are human rights preventing, in this case sexual discrimination.
Can you honestly, realistically argue that there is a difference, again other than scale.
They used force, IE "will to power" and "might makes" right to remove freedom from Americans.
The only difference, other than scale is that they did not target only one sex.
We have seen many Goreans including Grnrper use Nietzsche to argue how good and great Gor is, how similar/identical the concepts of "will to power" and "might makes right" are between him and Norman.
We saw a textbook example of "will to power" at it's very best{worst} yesterday in the US.
Yet Goreans enmasse still cling to their "naturalistic fallacy".
Grow up.
It is the ideas of "will to power" that led to the events in NY and DC.
Hate?
Like the hate it takes of humanity to support and condone a series of books and or a lifestyle that basis itself on slavery.
A culture that believes in sexual inequality.
If what I am espousing is Hate, then the world needs more of it.
Re: Interesting
"Personal Bio. Born in Argentum, found himself in Port Kar one morn'.(must have been one hell of a party). Studied the ways of the Blue Caste, learned their ways well. Untill one day he was forced to defend his home, fought gloriously and was given a ship to Captain. Moved once again, to Lydius, his face still weathered by the salt air of Port Kar, he misses his home and has once again returned to the sea, ahhhh, beautiful, beautiful Thassa. It is said by those that are in the know, that he serves the Priest Kings well. An educated man, a Rarri, sense his intelligence, a true carnivore, treacherous to the core. Keep Your Friends Close; And Your Enemies Closer. Here's To Your Health; And Here's To Your Blood; Yet What Is Good Health Without Good Blood? So Here's To Your Bloody Good Health."
No... I can see by your Bio that you do not roleplay Gor at all <chuckles> Who is the Hypocrit here?
the ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 794
(9/13/01 11:44) Reply
Re: Interesting
That is a character profile.
It was designed so as to be accepted by Goreans.
I am working on a masters thesis concerning online interaction and communities.
Without such a profile, as disgusting as it is, I was completely ignored by Goreans.
Many Goreans thought my "Killin'/Furrin' statement very gorean.
It is.
The fact that you use it against me as something that is horrendous and abhorent is simply hilarious.
So what you are truly saying is that Gorean ideas are horrendous and abhorent.
Thanks for the confirmation.
To interact with them I had to adopt their ideology in a profile.
Until I did so not one Gorean would interact.
I tried to interact as an "outsider" I was not given the time of day.
Pretty much proves my point about Goreans et al.
The only way I could learn about this closed community was to adopt their language and rhetoric.
It is a well known and accepted practise in sociological study.
All you do is yet again prove my point about Goreans.
Keep up the great work.
the ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 795
(9/13/01 11:58) Reply
Sad Truth Is
That not one Gorean can refute my claim that they do not have similar ideas and philosophies as the people that attacked the WTC.
Instead of doing so they attempt to denegrate me by posting a fictitious profile used to gain access to their inner circle of steel.
In the process of doing so only adding evidences to their ignorance and foolishness.
Further I am not the only person that sees the similarities.
www.my.iwebland.com/awtgor.htm
September 12th, 2001:
"After watching some terrorists destroy the World Trade Center towers, and killing thousands of people, I've decided to put this page back up on the Web and not just pass it out to other users. I'm tired of people bullying others around, threatening them, and killing them when it suits their purposes!! This has got to stop, people! The gors seem to be pretty similar to the terrorists. Their 'honor' is so identical that it's scary! And violence seems to be something that both groups like. What's really strange though, is these macho gorons using censorship to try and silence those who would tell others the truth about them. What's the matter, gors? You don't want others to know what you're really like? Too bad"!
From email I have recieved, including some ex S&S'ers:
"I understand your position with comparasion."
"You are right on the money, my friend".
"Assholes all of them".
"Frankly, I don't see a whole heck of a lot of difference between these jerks and the terrorists who destroyed the World Trade Center towers".
"There's just a difference of degree".
The last is very close to my very own words where I use the term, "difference of scale".
It goes on and on.
If other people see a close similarity there can only be one conclusion.
That there is indeed one.
Live with it.
Your ideals are sickening to the westernised free democracy in which you purport to live.
Your philosophy is Anti American through and through.
Only those that are so twisted by hate for everything that America stands for cannot see it.
IE Goreans.
Get a life
I have read the web site you offered for information purposes, and well, all I can say is. Get a life. Having been part of Gor for well over 5 years, I can say, I have never been kidnapped, raped, or abused by any Goreans I have met on or off-line.
Like anything, you can put to much into something. For what ever reason this chap had for writing what he did, he is basing many things on assumption. And from my experience, his assumptions are wrong.
He claimed slavemaster was Gorean, well he wasn't, he was very heavily into BDSM, not Gor, no doubt it is highly possible that one of his victims were associated with Gor, but that is one in the many he killed, raped and otherwise tortured. His actions have also been strongly opposed by the BDSM, D/s, M/s and Gorean communities.
I can recall several years ago, where rumours (got to love rumours) that Bear of the S&S, Marcus of the S&S and several other ops had slaves kennelled in their basements ready for sale. Guess what, it was just rumours. I have had off-line contact with Marcus, it was brief but quite honestly, I wasn't lured into any basement. Nor has Bear or anyone else tried to lure me anyplace. Happily those girls that I have known to visit with them, all came back, safe and sound.
For some reason the story on White Slavery hit that web site, I won't say that this doesn't happen, because it does, world over. Are Goreans truly in charge of it, no, nor would most Goreans condone this because we all are fore square supporters of, you better consent.
If women who willingly, I mean that in the fullest of terms, consent, and want to really become slaves, who is to stop them. In a world of freedom they are allowed that choice. They are also allowed that choice to leave. For all the talk of freedom of late, you have to understand the flip side of that freedom, the freedom to choose to live under the control of another.
Gor is not the only place sickos hide in, they have been found in child chat rooms, adult chat, alternative adult chat, main stream chat and just about any other chat forum out there that is possible. Problems with sickos are not limited to just one area of interaction here online, and it will never be. Sickos like slavemaster prey on the stupid and gullible, adults and children alike, no one is immune from it, it is up to us to be vigilant to keep them out of our mists, if and or when they are found out. It is up to us to protect our children by making them not only street smart, but Internet smart as well. Which means closely monitoring them while online, not allowing them to be alone in their bedroom with the Internet and several other methods of ensuring their well being.
Your rants Sha are beginning to sound like a crazy man, you pick straws, mince words, take things out of context and otherwise create most of what your writing out of the air. You cry out freedom, but you deny the very freedom I personally am entitled to, my choice to be what I want to be, surrendered to one man. Hell my choice, not yours to make, it's guaranteed in our Charter of Rights and freedoms. The law says, I am a person, and I am, it says, slavery as in the buying and selling of human flesh is illegal, it does not say I have to use all my rights if I choose not to. And that is what most Goreans slaves do, and will do time and time again.
The hideously cowardly act of terrorism the US has faced can not be blamed on anyone but those that perpetrated those crimes. It is the blanket statements of inner prejudice like yours which are bringing about backlash to a race of people who are innocent. Those people of East Indian origin are now being looked up as the enemy, when not all of them are. Yes perhaps a few handful fit the bill, but not the race, or religions. It is the same shallow and narrow thinking such as yours, which is causing their religious buildings being placed on fire, such as happened yesterday in St Catherine's Ontario, and several other places in the US.
Your full of hatred, towards one group of people, you shout the loudest how we are all bad, you cry out, we are bigoted, racists ect....and yet, when push comes to shove, your the worse offender of them all.
If you don't like us, leave, your not forced to remain here. We are not out to kill the world, enslave all women, or over throw all governments. Most of us are law abiding citizens of many countries around the globe. We value freedom, and freedom of choose and thought, we also highly value life.
Re: Get a life
Ahhh... you are of the same mind as Cyberwolfman... this explains a lot about you Xsha Tell. Thank you tho for the link to where he moved his site to this last time... it has become very mobile here lately. <chuckles>
the ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 806
(9/14/01 20:26) Reply
Re: Get a life
Enslave all women?
Don't you bloody get it.
Enslaving one person is no different than enslaving a notion.
Anyone whom cannot see that is simply sick.
Get help.
"The convoluted wording of legalisms grew up around the necessity to hide from ourselves the violence we intend towards each other. Between depriving a man of one hour from his life, and depriving him of his life, there exists only a difference of degree. You have done violence to him, consumed his energy. Elaborate euphemisms may conceal your intent to kill, but behind any use of power over another, the ultimate assumption remains; I feed on your energy."
Whomever CWM is, he understands that slavery is illegal and anti American.
He understands that using force and violence or the threat of violence is against American law.
Those that subscribe to these beliefs are by their own actions anti American.
Let's make this as simple as it comes
Slavery, the buy and selling of human flesh against their will is illegal.
Slavery that most Goreans, TPE, BDSM, S/m and M/s practice is the willing consent of those people to personally give up certain areas of their freedoms for a time period is not illegal and is not forced slavery. It's choice.
The rest of your rant, isn't worth the effort to address.
As to anti anything web sites, look around there are anti any topic you want websites, all part of the process of allowing freedom of thought and opinion. How you act on that opinion will define you!
It occurs to me, as waves of email is being sent to me, and others around the globe, purporting to be the words of Nostradamus, foretelling the third world war, and turns out to be a hoax, at the very least something taken very much out of context, and pasted together from several different sources. Anything you read on the Internet must be taken with alot of salt. Nothing is 100%, the source must be analysed before you rely on rumour, and hearsay. Opinions of others are based on many different things, one of them is miss information and prejudice. No one really knows why these words of "Nostradamus" were sent out as they have, perhaps as a joke, as sick as it is, but certainly the mass paranoia it can cause is worth taking a serious look at any thing before you believe it.
...
Why call the relationship between a submissive woman and a man Gorean slavery? For that matter, why call it slavery? Consenting to give up one's freedom for a time period, specified or otherwise, is not the act of a slave. Nor is it the act of a master to accept such conditional clauses on the part of his intended chattel.
The sky is blue and the grass is green. A woman given any...any...choice as to the nature of her status in a relationship with a man is, at best, a submissive person. She is not a slave.
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