Re: Everything That Is Good And True And Moral In Gor
For starters we have to realize that we (speaking collectively of those living the Gorean Lifestyle) are not trying to live like those fictionial characters. We think that there are some good ideas/ideals present in that work of fiction. It is those ideas/ideals, filtered thru common sense and the current laws of the land, that we incorporate into our life.
I just re-read that. I don't have the right to speak for the majority, let me say that I do those things.
Face it, I do not want to go to jail, therefore some of the things the "Fictionial Guys" did, I cannot, by the current laws of the land, do. I cannot fly into anothers city and steal their most precious artifact.
So, to respond to the subject of this post, I'll work backwards. Moral ... morals change with a given society. Some remain the same (or similiar), the taking of a human life comes to mind. But the same morals held by Saudi Arabians differ greatly from those held by Britons. Simalarly the morals held by those professing to be Gorean will differ, sometimes slightly, sometimes greatly from one from say ... Canada.
The same applies to "true". True in Canada is socalized medicine. It is not true in the U.S. or in several other countries. So "true" like "moral" is a judgement call. What is true to one person may be false to another.
The subject line calls for opinions.
So I think, for the moment at least, the morality issue and the "true" should be held back. Argue morals when you have something that fits into the "good" category to argue about. It will lessen the chance to cloud people suggestions and allow us to focous, for the moment, on the "good" category.
Oh, one other thing ... we aren't on Gor. I don't know anyone who actually thinks we are on Gor.
So what is Good about the Gorean lifestyle ? We have heard what is bad about it, on this board and others. Here is your chance, tell the patrons of this board what YOU think is good about the Gorean Lifestyle, and if possible, why.
I wish you well,
Randy "Even my friends cant believe he did it" Barnhart
Note : The refrences to Canada were directed to Dean. There was no malice, nor ill intent, just pushing my points a little, bringing them "a little closer to home" so to speak.
Re: Everything That Is Good And True And Moral In Gor
Then lets start by defining the word moral.
How about something like the oath I have sworn.
"To do no harm".
To not descriminate by sex, gender, colour of skin, age...
That to descriminate against a person is immoral.
A gorean has the right to believe what they will.
And no doubt I will hear that I am a bigot for saying what comes next.
Until it infringes upon another.
If an idea or philosophy oppresses an individual or group how can it be good and moral.
Now someone will bring up the oppresion of society against criminals I bet.
But the first statement comes into play, "to do no harm" , and by definition this is what a criminal does.
Re: Everything That Is Good And True And Moral In Gor
Slow down there big fella ... your are assuming already. Listen to what people are going to post, I would almost be willing to wager that what you see on this thread will have little if anything to do with infringing on another.
You see, amist all the slavery, killing and such, there are some good and valid points contained in the books.
I'll go ahead and list a few to get things rolling.
Self-Reliance, a sense of community, a healthy respect for the environment, an appreciation of "life's little treasures" (a sunrise/set for example). Yes, these are in there, hidden amoung the killing and slavery and other things you find personally abhorrent. It is these nuggets that I believe make the foundations of what people are calling the Gorean Phiolosophy.
Just hold back a little on the negative aspects of the fiction, we already know what they are.
Re: Everything That Is Good And True And Moral In Gor
I am listening Randy.
I never stopped.
I am glad someone actually figured this string out.
The things you list are all great and good I agree most whole- heartedly with you.
With this exception these concepts are not gorean at all, sure they are written about in the gor series.
They were accepted ideas far before gor was even a glimmer in Norman's eye.
Perhaps I would argue even before the written language.
These things cannot be credited to gor.
I do find the killing and slavery aborhent Randy, I hope you do.
I hope everyone does.
Now saying that Randy.
Within the books there is a quote {quote please} that states
that even though there is no racialism as we would know it on Earth, ie based upon phenotypical traits.
But there is a "racialism" between city states and their communities as strong as anything on Earth.
There is a strong sense of community, yes, but there is also a very strong concentric thinking that leads stranger communities to view eachother as enemies.
Is this something that should be "strained out" and added to the pile of grey goo?
Or is this where some {a lot} of goreans get the concept of me/family first then every thing else...
Randy Weaver had such thoughts.
To me this concept of "me first" is very dangerous and selfish and is a primary reason to the ills that we both, I hope, find aborhent.
Hello Grn'rper.
We'll take your essays one at a time shall we.
You say:
The key to the Gorean Philosophy and making all the high ideals work is ...................... passion. Not just any passion either, but a steaming, heart pounding, earth shaking, maelstrom type of passion for life itself.
Being Gorean is more than aiming towards living up to certain ideals, it's a burning desire to LIVE. To go out and experience life, to take it in your hands and not let go no matter what turns it may take.
Then you give the example of Bosk in the marshes from Raiders of Gor.
That he loved life so much that he gave up his freedom.
There are so many things wrong with this explanation that I know not where to begin.
First by giving up his freedom to become a slave he also gave up his honour.
What good is life if you have no honour, be you gorean or
non.
He wanted to die, it says so in the books afterall.
If life , the zest for it at all cost is what makes gor, then why would you {he} want to die?
You have painted yourself into a corner with your essay.
It is either a zest for life at all costs, even lowering onself to having no honour, being a slave, or is it conversely Bosk's feelings of shame and dishonour for giving up his freedom and saving his life so much so that he wished he was dead.
Hardly a zest for life or honour whichever you choose.
Further, if one has such a zeal and reverance for life then why is blood spilt and life taken so freely?
Without any apparent thought.
If there is such a joy and passion for life then why are ther slaves?
Are not all people deserving of the same rights and freedoms of life?
Should they not get the same chance to enjoy this gorean passion and joy of life?
Or should it be said something along the lines of joy of life but only for those that deserve it.
Minxie has posted numerours incidents where slaves where treated as if there lives had no meaning whatsoever.
It is a joy of all life grn'rper?
Or just the lucky few whom can swing a sword and were lucky enough to get the genes to build muscle mass.
See Grn'rper, you may believe that zeste pendant la vie or joie de la vie is the essence of gor.
How can it be when it only applies to ceratin individuals?
Seeing as how your idea cannot be applied to all your principle and thus your essay, to quote another, is null and void.
Re: Everything That Is Good And True And Moral In Gor
Actually, I see it far from being null and void, since you're just making a couple assumptions that you did not prove. The first one is that "Should they not get the same chance to enjoy this Gorean passion and joy of life?" That is where you make a leap of thought that simply is not true. My response to that is just why are you assuming that those who chose to be a slave here and now, after all this is Earth and while stuck with the books for a guide we take our true location and such into account, so why are you assuming that these who choose to be slaves DON'T love their life and that their passion for living happens to be applied toward serving the one they entered this master/slave relationship with? You can have a joy of life and still serve others. That they chose to apply their life to serving hardly means they love life any less, if anything might it not be said they love and appreciate it even more?
Also, I said that I posted a follow up to that essay that is right down below it in that string which addresses the other point you made, the one about it being not wanting to die rather than a yearning to live. The reason I feel its a yearning to live is that "If he did truly want to die rather than act out of wanting to live, he had plenty of chances to do so later and did the same thing every time however. He could have easily let himself be killed by forcing a fight in the barrens rather than spending most of two books basically a slave. He could have forced a fight in Tribesman rather than surrender and being enslaved for another brief period. In the same book he could have also easily have laid down and died in the desert but he kept fighting his way thru clinging to life. Over and over in the books he had times when it would have been easy to lay down and die or to force a fight rather than be captured and held as a slave for a while. But he didn't in each and every case. He put aside the easy way, he put aside a small temporary discomfort because being called something didn't make him what he was being called and he viewed his life worth something more. He wanted to do great things, not be killed over a point of pride. So he set pride aside and did what he needed to do to live. That is why I said his actions were based upon wanting to live."
If someone truly wanted to die, they would find a way to. But that isn't what happened, is it? Was he depressed over what he saw as a loss of his honor by breaking his codes? Yes, no denying it. But even though he said he wanted to die, he didn't did he. If he wanted to die, he would have let the raiders attacking the rencers do him in, but that didn't happen. If he really wanted to die he could have let Surbus cut him down, but he didn't. So all that we are left with is the fact that even though he said he wanted to die, every time he it came down to a life or death situation he did what he had to do to live. There is a point where being scared of death or not wanting to die just won't get you past what is facing you. One point like that for Tarl was in the Tahari in the book Tribesman. He was suffering from dehydration and lack of food, but he still forced his way thru not because he didn't want to die, just not wanting to die would have failed him days before. It came down to the fact that he wanted to LIVE and he did what ever it took to live as well.
Living life to it's fullest means you experience all of your emotions, not just the good ones while trying to ignore the others. We all have times where we are down or depressed. We all laugh, cry, love, hurt, sing, and express anger. To live, to truly live, you accept and embrace all of your emotions. That is what a passion for life is, it is the idea of feeling and embracing all of yourself and not denying parts of yourself.
the ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 709
(7/15/01 21:22) Reply
Re: Everything That Is Good And True And Moral In Gor
A better explanation is it is not a zest for life but a fear of losing it.
All of his exploits show this.
Again were the slaves in the books volunteers?
I think not.
RT gorean slaves are, by law, but we hear over and over gorean men claiming that the only thing that prevents real slavery is the law.
That if there weere no such laws then slavery, at least of women, would be a reality.
Now anyone here must suredly admit that non consensual slavery is wrong.
That slaves are seen as "in" or "non" human.
They do not get the same priviledge of enjoyment of life and its freedom.
You used examples to prove your points from fiction.
I show where you go wrong not only in your interpretaion of fiction but in rt where we have heard many many goreans say if only.......
Thus both in fiction and rt this joy of life is reserved only for those that are free.
Now you argue that he could have died if he wanted to, well then it would have been a very short series wouldn't it.
The fact remains he wanted to die, this very idea shows that your premise cannot be the basis of gor.
Further you completely skip over one most important point, his willingness to give away his honour, his humanity to save his life.
In reality there are many whom wish to die but cannot actually kill themselves.
Honour we are told is the end all and be all to a gorean, it is in the codes.
Yet Bosk throws it away at will to save his sorry hide.
Re: Everything That Is Good And True And Moral In Gor
It still isn't true, if he, as he said, wanted to die, then he would have taken the many chances available and died. But he didn't. He was in a momentary depression yes, but it is also clear that he at that point in his life was basing his honor on what someone else was telling him honor was. For him at that point, he was what someone else was telling him to be, the codes. But then he learned that he was still himself and that he hadn't lost anything at all.
Fear of losing life can not carry you thru everything, there is a point where you have to want to live, where you with every bit of who you are cling to life by the very fingernails to make it thru. Not wanting to die is a nice wish but there isn't enough to it to pull you thru the really tough times. There is a point where its just easier to let go than try and avoid dying unless you really want to live with all of who you are.
Also, you comments of
"RT gorean slaves are, by law, but we hear over and over gorean men claiming that the only thing that prevents real slavery is the law.
That if there weere no such laws then slavery, at least of women, would be a reality."
Well, I regect that straight out because I'm on the record many times that I do not support that idea, and don't think it will ever happen, and wouldn't ever want to see it happen, so to use what some one who has no common sense says to prove my ideas wrong is just not possible. Because all that proves is they aren't thinking.
As to honor, what he gave away was his codes, that is a type of honor as it is defined in the books. By the end of the same book he realizes that while he didn't fit this written down version of honor that the group he associated with and was part of, the Warriors, he still had his personal honor and that was what really mattered. And I never claimed the codes were the end all be all either, so not sure where you got that idea from what I wrote.
Re: Everything That Is Good And True And Moral In Gor
Tal Gorean Rp'er
I do not think we have talked, even upon these boards, but I ask your favor, that I be allowed to comment upon this discussion.
It has been suggested that Xsha Tell has only seen one book of the Gor Series, and that is Raiders of Gor, and he likes to speak of it as if he is an authority on its interpretation. Of course, he likes to speak as if he is an authority on everything, but it surprises me that he understands so little of this particular book.
To me, the point of the book is not that Bosk lost his honor in the marshes, or that he became a slave to "save his worthless hide." If Xsha Tell had read to the end of the book, he would have discovered the point of the story. It is explained quite clearly in the closing pages, by Samos, when he says:
"Neither of you have been lost, or destroyed. Both of you are whole and human."
He goes on to say:
"Both of you now know yourselves as you did not before, and in knowing yourself you will be better able to know others, their stengths and weaknesses."
And then he says:
"When you lost your images of yourselves, and learned your humanity, in your diverse ways, and shame, you abandoned your myths, your songs, and would except only the meat of animals, as though one so lofty as yourself must be either Preist-King or beast. Your pride demanded either the perfection of the myth or the perfection of its most villainous renumciation. If you were not the best, you would be nothing less than the worst; if there was not the myth there was to be nothing. There is something between the fancies of poets and the biting and rooting and sniffling of beasts."
These words could have as been easily said to Xsha Tell, as to Tarl Cabot.
This whole board is about viewing life and the world in clear cut colors of black or white. It is about supporting the myth of the angelelic nature of man. It is about the myth that humans are good and noble things, free from bigotry, racism and evil. If anyone dares to make a statement that does not satisfy the myths, he is labeled, and he is considered to have no worth or validity.
Goreans generally see man as fitting somewhere between "the fancies of poets and the rooting of beasts." We live in a world of grays.
In us all is much that is noble and much that is base. We are a species that can build cathedrals and firebomb cities. We can extend the hand of brotherhood to strangers, or we can murder. We jail men for having sex with 16 year girls, but abort unborn babies at will. We put child abusers on probation and lock up pot smokers.
We teach our children the myths that all is well, that all is going according to a great master plan, that the history of the world is a movement towards freedom, liberty, equality, and a virtual utopia. Yet, we know better. Some of us do anyway.
This is the problem with Xsha Tell, and his crusade against Gor. He is so caught up with the myths, so out of touch with reality that he can see things only one way.
Even Pollyanna said that "if you look for the bad in people, you will surely find it."
John Norman, in Raiders of Gor, says that in each of us is bad and good. To recognize that fact, and to learn to deal with it is what makes us humans.
Those who envision themselves as perched on high mountains of moral rightousness, looking down at the rest of humanity, and failing to see the baseness of themselves, are just as bad as those wallowing in the valleys of immorality, failing to see the good in anyone.
The first five books of the Gorean series were high adventure fantasy, and Tarl was presented as a "superhero" type. In Raiders of Gor, the series took a turn, and from that point on Tarl was to be presented as a "human", who would sometimes act with much nobility, compassion, and morality, and other times would not.
It is only from such a realistic character can we draw any lessons.
A man who has no weakness; a man who never errs; a man who basks in his own moral superiority while waving his finger at others pointing out their faults and failings can have no credibility. He can not be a spokesman for humanity for he is not even human himself.
The philosophy found in the Christian Religion, removed from the spiritual aspect, is quite wise when it tells us not to try to remove the speck from our brothers eye, when we have a plank in our own. Or when it says, he who exalts himself, will be humbled. Or when it says, we have all sinned, and fallen short...
In my opinion, Raiders of Gor, is the story of a man who went down into the very depths of despair, and failed to live up to his own standards, and was seduced by the material and base things of this world. His downward spiral was turned around by a simple act of kindness toward a "not too attractive" slave girl, and an act of decency toward a former despicible enemy.
In other words it is the story of all humans. Our lives are always struggles against the "beast" within us. Yet, we can recognize this truth about ourselves, and rise above it.
This is something Good and True And Moral about Gor. It teaches us that beyond the catch words, and the myths, beyond the labels and the laws, there is humanity.
And when you realize this, you understand Samos, when he says:
"It is only in such moments that a man sometimes learns that all truth and all reality is not written in one's own codes."
In Xsha Tell's case, he must somehow learn that all truth and all reality is not written in his sociology text books, his laws, his myriad of websites, or his science.
In conclusion, to be human is to search for truth and reality, not to argue the position that you already completely know it, and are its guardian and defender.
Re: Everything That Is Good And True And Moral In Gor
Thank you, Locodarwin, as was your post about instincts on the other side of the forum. I noticed that thread was closed, so I thought I would recommend it to any readers who might have been following that discussion.
Re: Everything That Is Good And True And Moral In Gor
Yes, Gorm, I think you've got what I was trying to say. I don't think we quite agree on where he started to turn back upward though, but that hardly matters in the larger scheme of things. You saw what happened in the way that I saw it, so for that I'm glad that at least some got what I was saying.
the ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 711
(7/16/01 19:32) Reply
In Other Words, You Are All Agreeing That....
Tarl/Bosk looked at goreans and their codes of morals and honour, and saw then for what they were.
Through his becoming a slave he learned that it was bad and awful that being a slave means losing or having no honour.
He even says that he was abused as a slave.
Now grn rper you may not feel that way about rt slaves but many goreans do.
Those are the people I am speaking to.
If you have these beliefs you certainly cannot have a zest for life or you would see slavery for what it is.
A disrespect for life.
The same can most certainly be said for the characters in the books, they certainly had no respect for life, other than their own lives.
Even Tarl /B osk after learning what it is to be a slave, how inhuman it is, how abused he felt, he goes on to own many many slaves.
Thus like just about every gorean I know, fiction or otherwise, the man is a hypocrite.
Gorm FYI it was not myself that brought up raiders but grn rper.
Now grn rper, first you say that Tarl availed himself of many opportunities to die and or be killed then you say he did not.
Indeed factual in the fiction the man has an obvious death wish, it is only by luck,{ read Norman} that the character lives.
As I said if he died it would have been a short series.
As for all men having ugliness inside speak for yourself gorm.
You missed out some quotes gorm.
We anticipated, said Samos, that your humanity would assert itself...... you would grovel and whine for your life.
"I dishonoured my sword" says Tarl
"I betrayed my codes"
Samos replies" You found your humanity"
Tarl: "I betrayed my codes"
Samos on what Tarl learned:
the cruelties, the miseries and degradations of the most abject of slaveries.
{FYI: Abject; miserable, degraded, despicable}
It is then whhen Tarl proclaims he will never again serve the Priest Kings.
The same PK's that make gor what it is.
So what does he learn?
He learns that honour, gorean honour is nothing, means nothing.
He learns that slavery is wrong, cruel, abusive, it is a degradation of human life.
He learns that the beings that make gor what it is are inhuman and evil.
Basically everything that gor is is wrong.
But then after swearing to not do these things by serving the PK's he still goes on to abuse the life of slaves.
Hmmmmmm.
I see.
I see that Tarl rejects gor and everything it stands for.
The codes no less.
But in later books embraces slavery and these codes.
I see a hypocrite.
I see a man learn and admit what it means to be a slave then celebrate by owning slaves.
I see a man reject the gorean codes of honour.
Something that you yourself gorm have said is the be all and end all of gor.
Well except when it comes to women.
Re: In Other Words, You Are All Agreeing That....
No, we are not agreeing upon that at all. You made another unsupported leap of mislogic.
The first error you made leading to that is about the "codes." These codes that Tarl was following up to that point were NOT followed by every one of Gor nor were they applicable to every warrior on Gor. They were the codes used by, taught to, and applicable to the caste of warriors. Others have honor of course, but it wouldn't have been expressed by this set of codes that Tarl is refering to. You are taking something that applied to a small segment of the population and trying to say it is representative of all, and that just isn't true.
The second error you made is that you flat out say that while you are responding to my posts, you are wording and using reasons applied to those who think things I have already said I do not agree with, and in fact the larger online Gorean community as a whole does not agree with. You are still trying to treat everyone and all the opinions of Gor like they only are applicable to the most radical and idiotic fringe of those relating to Gor. If you want to respond to my opinions and ideas fine, but leave the others out of it because they aren't posting here I am.
So when you say, "Now grn rper you may not feel that way about rt slaves but many goreans do. Those are the people I am speaking to." That is your second error, you can not get your mind off those that I already said I thought had it wrong, and most even think they have it wrong, to bother to take my post as what it is, nothing at all to do with bigotry, hatred, and abuse.
Also, I would suggest you look at the quote you posted again. What happened was that Tarl discovered he wasn't perfect. He found he was human, with human flaws. By embracing his life, flaws and all, he ended up becoming a better person. It is the person who knows he has a flaw and is honest about having it that is NOT a hypocrite. A hypocrite is the person who denies he has flaws, who is claiming to be perfect while that is obviously not true. What happened to Tarl is he realized he was human. That what he had been taught wasn't the end all be all of who he was but that he had flaws and that living by a set of codes wasn't what his honor really was, but rather it was his own self knowledge and honesty to himself that was his honor. That's not hypocracy, that personal growth as a human.
the ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 713
(7/16/01 20:15) Reply
Re: In Other Words, You Are All Agreeing That....
This very statement was made to exclude you
"Now grn rper you may not feel that way about rt slaves but many goreans do. Those are the people I am speaking to."
Personal growth man?
Personal growth?
Where?
He learned how horrible it is to be a gorean to honour the codes.
Whatever you wish to call them they are the codes most goreans call their own.
Yet he still owns slaves.
This very fact alone shows that Tarl learned nothing and grew little if at all.
It shows that the man had no respect for human life other than his own.
Especially the lives of human slaves.That is exactly what a hypocrite is.
So by your own defintion then these "fringes" say men like the Ss'ers and gorm here.
Are what was it? Oh yes the idiotic fringe.
Well yes they are.
And grn rper, your premise is still wrong.
Explain away the treatment of slaves and Tarls acceptance even after he knows how inhuman it is to be and own a slave.
Misconception
Tarl failed to follow the codes of a Warrior in the Vosk Delta. The doctrine of 'Peril and Steel' is Warrior's ideal, not every Gorean man's.
the ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 719
(7/17/01 22:32) Reply
Re: Misconception
No it isn't, but most rt goreans claim the red caste, the only one I know that doesn't is Bear.
It still does not excuse Tarl's understanding of slavery and Samos telling him so, "he gained back his humanity" afterall.
Yet he still ends up owning slaves.
He spills blood and uses violence to a means to an end.
Anyone whom trluy has a zest for life, all life, would treat all life with respect.
Not just the free and the strong.
By this very fact Grn' rper cannot use Tarl/Bosk as an example of a man that respects life and that this is what makes him gorean.
Now let's say for argument that Grn' rper is right, that Tarl is what represents the gorean ideal because he respects life then what does that make of all the men that do follow the codes he rejected.
Re: Misconception
Actually, most of the real timers I know do not claim the warrior caste so I guess we are looking at a different group of people. I know I don't claim to the of the warriors as well. I suppose I would be considered either a merchant or a scribe based upon the jobs I've had so far.
Also, there is no need to defend the fact that Tarl/Bosk owned slaves because I've already covered the fact that all that is being used by us here and now is consensual slavery which is a type of personal relationship. Therefor there is no need to defend or discuss something that is completely off topic and not applicable. As to respecting life, I'd suggest you look again at how he used his sword. He wasn't going around hacking down every person that crossed his path, indeed in many cases he walked away from fights rather than drawing his steel to battle. He was of the Warriors and the warriors duty was to protect. He fought with other warriors, and in almost every case I've found in the books he even let the other person swing or strike first to start the fight then he ended it. The two cases that didn't go that way though that I've found are when he attacked two much larger groups. 1st in Raiders when he single handedly attacked the 7 barges who had attacked the rencers, whom all but 4 of which were freed, and then in Hunters where he again used the bow to pick off some men in a column of over a hundred enemies to even the odds as much as he could.
Personally, I think he shows a lot of respect though for facing his enemies one at a time in most every case with the sword. Which is more respectful of life, one on one combat to settle something or dropping a bomb in the middle of a city of a million or so people to take out a factory or a communications facility? It's indiscriminate killing that is what is disrepectful of life in my opinion.
As to your wondering "that Tarl is what represents the gorean ideal because he respects life then what does that make of all the men that do follow the codes he rejected." I happen to think that he did not reject them at all, he just came to realize that the fact that he was human and that while those codes for his way of life was a good set of Guide Lines, it wasn't the end of the world when he as a human made a mistake and didn't follow one of them. And that is what those who use him for an example should learn, that they are human and mistakes or flaws are part of being human, that you aren't a failure for having a human flaw.
the ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 720
(7/18/01 15:59) Reply
Re: Misconception
Pick off?
What you actually mean is that he murdered them, assassinated them.
You cannot have it both ways Grn'rper, you use references from the books on how good Tarl was, I can use references to show how wrong you are about his respect for life.
Tarl did not have consensual slaves.
Your argument is bogus.
Tarl did murder at the drop of a hat, over and over.
Murder, is the epitomy of not having respect for life.
Slavery, is the epitomy of not having respect for life.
Again, if Tarl was what makes gor gorean, for arguments sake, then that must mean everything else, the codes, slavery, murder, etc is not gorean.
By your argument those characters that did these things are not gorean or following a gorean philosophy, by your argument it excludes those of the warrior caste and those whom own slaves.
Now back to Tarl/Bosk the man at the end of Raiders proclaims to never follow the warrior codes, he learns just how inhuman it is to own slaves, he gains back his humanity.
Yet he continues to murder and condone and own slaves.
I see now what it means to be a gorean.
I see.
BTW if Tarl refutes the warrior codes at the end of Raiders when does he re embrace them?
Either way, one he is not a warrior and your defense of his actions is again bogus, because he had no warrior duties, or two he is a warrior and thus is everything that is wrong with gor, remember he refutes the ways of the warrior so he cannot be a warrior so he must be a hypocrite.
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